Ariel Pink is an American artist and musician considered by many to be one of the godfathers of hypnagogic pop. His work, which has been released on record labels such as Paw Tracks, 4AD, and Mexican Summer, is celebrated for its unyielding prolificity and its bridging of the gap between high and low art forms. Pink has enjoyed success first and foremost as a cult artist and more recently as an appointed enfant terrible and thorn in the side of the virtue-signaling left, who tried to besmirch his name, stall his career and destroy his livelihood by making provably false claims against him in the press over his candid support for President Donald Trump. He will be playing his first show since 2018 at L.A.’s The Mayan on September 8.
This interview was conducted by Blake Moulder.
Ariel Pink: Hey! Sorry, I’m just packing some orders right now. Sorry if I seem a little bit distracted.
Blake Moulder: That’s fine. That’s always a good thing.
AP: So how are you doing?
BM: Well, I’m doing alright, thanks. I can’t complain. I mean, I could, but what good would it do me? How about you? How are things?
AP: Oh, that’s good. Me too. I mean, I’m filling back to back orders. So that’s good. And I don’t know if you saw that we just posted the announcement?
BM: Oh, what was that? I’m sorry, I must have missed it.
AP: There was an announcement for a show in September.
BM: Oh, that’s awesome. Where at?
AP: The Mayan, in Los Angeles. September 8th.
BM: Very nice. I’m glad to hear it.
AP: It’ll be the first show since 2018, actually.
BM: Really? Wow. See, that’s just, that’s almost incomprehensible, man.
AP: It is incomprehensible. I mean, I’ll believe it when I see it, you know?
BM: Yeah. I’m sure you have your doubts.
AP: I have my doubts. You know, obviously, but… it’s actually a Latino venue, so…
BM: Okay. So actually, yeah, you fare better there.
AP: Yeah. I mean, they’re not gonna really cower to, like, they’re not gonna be browbeaten and told that they’re racist for having me play there.
BM: True, those tactics usually only work on white liberals. Who usually hold the most scorn for the subjects they claim they’re here to defend.
AP: Absolutely. For, for their, uh–
BM: Their pet causes.
AP: Yeah. But they’re not racist! That’s why they’re running out and joining BLM…
BM: Oh, of course. Yeah.
AP: They don’t have, they’ve never had a black friend in their entire life.
BM: Nope. Yeah, I know the type. Those are the ones that give me the hardest time. And here I am, and most of the people I participate in things with, that I carry on with and who have my back and vice versa are the coined POCs, as the handlers would like to say, or whatever, you know, whatever the vernacular is at this time.
AP: They’re racist.
BM: Yeah. Well, it’s true.
AP: They’re actually racist.
BM: Vehemently racist.
AP: I really didn’t even know until the BLM thing happened. And then I realized, oh my God, all my friends are racist and I had no idea, because they all blacked out their Instagram thing. They blacked out their Instagram. And I was just like, are you guys serious? I mean I’ve had black friends my entire life so I just take it for granted. But I realized that they’re –
BM: Is it like, Munchausen by proxy?
AP: That’s too much. They’re trying to basically like prove, but beyond a reasonable shadow of a doubt, that they are not racist. That’s what they’re doing. That’s why the optics matter so much, you know? They’re desperate to not be seen as racist.
BM: Right. And whoever even brought that charge in the first place?
AP: No, I mean, they just feel seen online. That’s the difference. You know, like for the first time in their lives, they feel special. They pour through their followers and look at the diversity and inclusivity index… They think that they’re gonna be outed at any moment. It’s the condition. Now everybody’s seen, so you know how in the past you had people that just, you know, would take it for granted that they’re just invisible and it doesn’t matter what they say. But nowadays, there’s still… the reality is that they’re still invisible.
AP: But they feel seen.
BM: And it’s illusory. The whole bit seems very onanistic. Very masturbatory.
AP: I think it’s a lot more insidious than that. I mean, it’s literally all that people worry about now. I mean, people will die for their country. But they’ll give their country away if their personal brand or if their personal reputation is threatened with some sort of reputational smear or anything like that, you know? Everybody’s just running for cover. That’s all they’re doing. It’s not masturbatory, they’re covering their ass.
BM: Yeah. I tend to agree.
AP: Something’s coming at them.
BM: It’s the same people that browbeat you about this and that, that you know damn well sit around and make light, have the same sense of humor, the same perspective towards life, that say un-PC things, stuff of this nature. You know what I mean? But they’re the ones that’ll throw you under the bus the quickest, or at least remain silent to cover their own asses.
AP: Well, right. I mean, if we’re talking about John (Maus), for instance, the politics… It doesn’t have anything to do with that. It has to do with the psychological tactics that are being used on a daily basis. It’s basically used against us to make us think that there’s some sort of political divide when there’s not.
AP: I’ve got the same politics as everybody else in L.A. does. I’m as liberal, no, I’m more liberal than almost anybody I know. I mean, if you listen to my music, if you follow me or keep track of my career, you’d know that. You’d know that there’s no way that I’m a conservative in the traditional sense.
BM: Right. That’s what kills me about this happening to you of all people.
AP: I mean, what have they done? They basically have taken advantage of the fact that they got away with calling a presidential candidate a racist in the news.
BM: And worse than that: a rapist.
AP: Back in the day you couldn’t say that kinda stuff unless you had some real hard evidence. You just couldn’t call anyone that. Like Anderson Cooper would never call Bush a racist. Now he could insinuate it in some other way, but he couldn’t come out and outright say it.
AP: That would be like grounds for firing. There’s almost nothing worse than being a racist in this country for the past 60 years. It’s really the fact that they’ve gotten so much mileage out of being able to call him literally everything in the book, every bad thing that you could ever imagine somebody being called, they got away with doing that for the past seven years. Daily. Around the clock on the media. With the tech, you know, the collaboration with the DNC, with Silicon Valley, and with the mainstream media.
BM: Oh, yeah.
AP: And then you wonder why Jack White is going out there and making comments like he just did, you know, calling Joe Rogan and Mel Gibson out as being Nazis. And people are like, even the people on the left are like, “Oh, that’s going a little too far.” And it’s like, no, it’s not! What do you expect to happen? Look what you did. Look what you guys did. This has been normalized. The idea that this person was a fascist. And they’re not gonna look elsewhere. They’re not gonna turn on Fox News. They’re not gonna listen to the other side. Look, I’ve never read The Klan, you know. I’ve never read it. There might be something to it, but I’ve never read it. Because I don’t need to read it. If I read it and it makes sense to me, then that’s cause for concern. So, I understand the impulse. I understand the impulse to not read something because basically you don’t wanna get that stink on you.
BM: Of course. Right.
AP: But that’s how they feel about conservatives. That’s how they feel about people who like Fox. They take it literally, man. They take it so literally. If you have on CNN, they say Trump supporters are Nazis, or Trump supporters are anti-Semites or Trump supporters are transphobic or all these things… They’re never going to listen to the other side. They can’t. Because if the other side makes sense to them, then that will make them fascists, Nazis, or transphobes.
BM: Or terrorists.
AP: They cannot do that. But they did that. And now they have to clean it up. And I don’t know how that’s gonna work. But anyway… that’s my politics. (laughs)
BM: No, I understand. And that, if I may say so, is what has gotten me bunched up the most about this whole ordeal with you in particular. Like you were explaining that your own personal politics have been self-evident and it’s not like you’ve ever even been a political artist necessarily.
AP: Never. I’ve been embraced by it these past couple years and that’s it.
BM: I would say even the people you’ve been associated with and the scenes that you’re figured to be a part of and everything, and not including you alongside your inferiors or anything like that, or the people who come for you like this, but I’m just saying it’s a form of cannibalism where you’re probably more left of center than most of these people are.
AP: Oh, I am. I absolutely am. And really what it is, it’s more like I’m an apostate. And they reserve special venom for people like me.
BM: So can I ask you this: What do you feel it is, what is it exactly that got you ostracized? That made you an apostate? Is it just the bare minimum of witnessing something, subjecting yourself to the vicinity of people they deem inhuman?
AP: Well that was not it. It was not that I was there. Because I wasn’t there. I wasn’t there. I’ve never been within a mile of the capitol building. So keep that in mind.
BM: Right. Yeah, I understand. I’m just saying based on their narrative.
AP: So why would they target me? I get it, I understand the question. The question is why did they drop my name, and its being used in hundreds of headlines, and claim that I did something that I didn’t, that there were no eyewitnesses to me doing or anything. There’s zero evidence. There’s proof to the contrary that I actually did not go to the capitol. Had I known that there was gonna be an insurrection, I probably would’ve gone (laughs). There was no discussion among the people I went with. There was no discussion about any insurrection happening. So there was a rally. And there was another rally after the first rally, which the first rally was Trump speaking at the White House, which is why I was there, you know? And after I saw that, I was just like, okay, well, you know, you guys can go ahead if there’s another rally… I mean, boring. I already saw the main event, you know, like, I don’t need to go to another rally and hear people going rah, rah rah, like loud with a bullhorn or whatever. So I stayed back. But, you know, they decided to go. They went and there was like a photograph of all three of us in the hotel room that somehow made its way online. Which was not through me, it was through Alex (Moyer) or John. People automatically assumed when John posted a picture of himself, or footage of himself outside of the capitol pointing, everybody assumed that I was on the other side of the lens with the camera. And that picture was taken by his wife, by the way. That was not taken by me. I wasn’t there. I was nowhere. I never got within a mile, I was in the hotel room snoring. So, now, there’s several different layers to this. Why did they pick me and not him? Well, because John is not the headline for whatever reason.
BM: It wouldn’t gain traction.
AP: Which I don’t understand. He’s just as significant if not bigger than me. It makes no sense to me whatsoever. I caught the ire of the general liberal world, I suppose, because unlike John, I was open. I was basically the only person in Hollywood that was a Trump supporter for three years. I put myself on the radar just by doing that. That made me infamous. I’m literally the only person besides James Woods, who probably wasn’t very vocal about it prior either, but I love that guy.
BM: God bless James Woods.
AP: The fact that I was the only person openly pro-Trump in all of Hollywood, openly, made me different than just about any person, any celebrity that might be voting for Trump, that’s working in the industry and that’s doing it covertly basically. That’s because there was a moratorium, you understand? Like, there was. There was an unspoken agreement between all parties, all industries, all mediums, all humanities, whatever, that you could not openly be pro-Trump. That was the understanding. And so across every single medium, anywhere there was any kind of corporate backing or any kind of established institution whatsoever. That there was not going to be any of them who were going to be pro-Trump outwardly. That was the understanding among those on the top and that’s why it was such a uniform blackout. And that’s why save the occasional Fox correspondent that everybody was in lockstep with each other. It just goes to show you how successful their psychological operations really are. They really rolled out every possible punch. They tried it by any and every means possible. Which is to try and delegitimize this person and to really make it so that there was no possible way that anybody could ever even say that they were pro-Trump. They couldn’t allow him another term in office. They couldn’t allow it to happen because then their heads would be on the line.
BM: Yeah. And we saw that play out in real time.
AP: Yeah. We saw it all in real time. And anybody who saw it in real time, by the way, is already blacklisted. The only people who are allowed to go on are the people that weren’t paying attention. If you voted at all, you are automatically seen as a Trump supporter. And I think that’s the way that the voters, that’s what they were told, and as soon as they got voting by mail, they tallied it on the side but then they sent it to a landfill. They basically figured out how many people actually went out their way to vote. And they had to figure out how many people they would need to make up fake ballots for to make up for it. So, I really do believe that there was election interference, but more than that there was the egregiousness of the whole Russia hoax thing.
BM: Yeah. The brazenness of it, it being in broad daylight, the fact that we’re openly held to such contempt that we’re expected to just take a bite of that shit sandwich and smile.
AP: Because they actually didn’t know. They do hold American conservatives, I mean, America in general, the American public in total contempt. They let him run simply because they’re like, “Okay, well we’ll just let this guy run and then Hillary Clinton will totally win” because otherwise she won’t win. Nobody, people don’t like her, but, well, you know, what choice will they have if we put somebody completely unelectable on the ballot and it totally backfired. They completely misjudged everyone and they got caught with their pants down. At that point, you know, the media could’ve taken a sober look at itself and said, “Oh, what part did we play in this whole mess? Maybe we need to go back to the drawing board and realize that it was a little bit too on the nose. We weren’t subtle enough. People don’t trust us.” That’s it, that’s the kind of thing that should have happened. But…
BM: Well, like you say, as far as going back to the drawing board, I think that’s like a figure of speech that applies in a much greater sense to what it may take for this to be upended in the first place.
AP: Well, you know, I mean, the way that we’ve managed to do, and I’m not saying that like, you know, there was anything legit about any election prior, but I’m not–
BM: It’s not like you’re here advocating for the validity of the two-party system or anything like that.
AP: Or that. The two-party system, the way that I understand it, by the way, is that it’s not a two-party system. It’s a one party system.
BM: It is.
AP: I mean, that’s what it is in theory (a two-party system). But we all know it’s not. The reason why it would have to be a two-party system and not a three-party system to me is obvious. It was a one-party system ‘till the Civil War, more or less.
BM: And well, we know what the bottom line is always going to be.
AP: With the advent of the, you know, in order to call an end to the war they had Republicans. Republicans were basically put in there to keep a check on the power that was already there. So long as you have two people that are vying for power, and that’s holding a check on the other one, I think that’s why it’s a two-party system. If it was a three-party system, it’s not like it has to do with what the actual sides stand for. That is fluid. It just changes. They can swap issues, swap positions. You take it as an understanding that it’s a one-party system and yet there’s one party that has to watch out because they might get voted out if they play their cards too heavy-handedly.
BM: Well, can I interject here and ask a question? Do you feel that, ultimately, in a nutshell, is what brought the hammer down on Trump as a figurehead, as a buzzword for basically who is and who isn’t persona non grata?
AP: I think what did it was having everybody in the media offering their opinion and having that smattering of opinions all basically announced to the same soundbites. You know what I’m saying? Like, all were basically announcing he’d never be president. There’s no chance he’s gonna win. When you have everybody saying that all along and then basically acting like it’s this great travesty when on the night of the election he actually wins.
AP: How did that happen? The news! They didn’t give you any information. They’re completely and utterly useless. The media is a disinformation machine. They didn’t tell you that he has so much support everywhere around the country. He actually inspires love from his followers. That is something people don’t wanna reconcile with. They think it’s just bad eggs that are out there just kind of sticking it to the Democrats. It’s like, no, the guy speaks to the American people who have grown fed up with bullshit.
BM: He cut through the noise with an ecstatic truth.
AP: And he was treated like shit for it! People identify with that. They don’t feel heard. They don’t feel like they have any kind of real representation on a national scale. He definitely checked all the boxes. He did. And the way that they treat him, the worse they treat him, the more they’re gonna support him. And he’s gonna get more and more supporters.
BM: Do you feel that that’s the way this will play out with the latest developments?
AP: I personally think that the guy got probably the most amount of votes ever. I mean, like, to be honest, it’s the fact that even more people came out and voted for him the second time around that speaks volumes.
BM: Oh, no, no, no! Let me fact-check you, sir. It was actually Joe Biden who received the most votes ever.
AP: I’m just saying, and here’s the other thing: that was all because of mail-in ballots.
BM: It was because people were intimidated.
AP: Democrats do not vote. Okay? Here’s the thing. They do not vote. You have to put a pen in their hand, and you have to go to their house and stand there and make sure they fill something out in order for them to give a damn about whatever it is that’s going on in D.C. They hate politics. Okay? I mean, Democrats are apolitical. They don’t care about politics. They don’t give a shit about it. They don’t wanna be bothered with it. That’s why they’re the ideal party for these people because they capitalize on their base being completely unaware of what they’re doing. Okay? So if they do, if they actually participate in politics, nobody knows about it. It doesn’t go anywhere. They have people that are taking care of it for them in D.C., making sure that their vote is taken care of so they don’t have to worry about it. And then you have conservatives, who are suckers because they’re under the misapprehension that their vote actually matters. They know a little bit more about politics than the Democrats. But at the same time, they’re the biggest sitting ducks because they still think that’s even a thing. Like I don’t think for a second that the country’s divided down the middle. No, that’s bullshit.
BM: You go out into the meat-space and actually mix it up and that doesn’t reflect reality.
AP: This country is as conservative as can be. And there are no Democrats. Democrats don’t even exist, man. They’re an elite managerial class. That’s it.
BM: Rootless cosmopolitans.
AP: Yes. That’s it. But they don’t exist as a voter base.
BM: No, they really don’t. That’s valid.
AP: So it’s obvious. And they make perfect mercenaries.
BM: They make for great golems.
AP: Yeah. Yeah. You can just brainwash them and you can swipe the hard drive clean and put some new information in there. And every four years, you know, they’ll be willing apparatchiks, good soldiers and they’ll get all bent outta shape and they’ll do their thing. And you got a bunch of plausible deniability behind them because they don’t really consider what any other Democrat does their problem or anything like that. It’s perfect.
BM: There’s always built-in pardons for other people that are within their group, because that previous attempt wasn’t the real thing. You understand?
AP: Well, also, they don’t even need a pardon. They just don’t get in trouble. Occasionally they have gotten in trouble and the more trouble they get into, the more criminal the element, the better chance they have of being out in a couple years or doing their appeals.
BM: It feels like the more that the veil has been lifted, the more acceptable it’s become, and the more they’re allowed to get away with.
AP: Well, because they’re doing it in such egregious fashion now. All hope seems kind of lost. It’s very demoralizing.
BM: Well, because they’ve systematically wrung it out of everyone.
AP: Yeah. Well, you know, the problem with Trump is that he basically got the right excited about itself for the first time in a long time and maybe even redefined it. So you had these people that believed all of a sudden in the promise of…
BM: In the office of the presidency again.
AP: And that was the false promise. It was just that they made a misstep. They misgauged. And that doesn’t usually happen. They had to figure out how to correct that but in doing so they’ve had to basically stamp out any sense of resolve on the part of the right. They have to.
BM: Yeah. Well, with Trump in that situation it reminds me of Kanye West and what he’s been on about lately, about how they’ll plant people in your lives and surround you with people that will counter-signal you and shut you down to the point that it’s basically impossible to present yourself with any uninfluenced authenticity.
AP: Oh, yeah, well, it makes it very difficult. But I mean, the thing with Kanye or anyone who basically has anything going for them, I’d say, is that they think for themselves. That’s the only thing that me, Trump and Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson have in common is that. I mean, that’s the only thing. Same thing with Elon. I mean, anybody who basically thinks for themselves, and actually reads the fine print on the page, which is really what it is. We knew what we were able to do. We knew that we were basically able just speak our minds because that was an expressed right that we have. And that, I benefited from that right my entire career. Because I’ve never had to watch myself or watch what I say for, you know, for worry of losing fans or anything like that. I’m not a machine. I’m not part of the machine. I’ve never had a manager. I’ve been able to say whatever I want the entire time. And whatever gets me into trouble, I’ve always been able to use to my advantage. But those things were like, protected. I mean, I could say that I killed my grandmother. If it didn’t happen, then there’s no crime; no harm, no foul. I could say lots of things, but that doesn’t mean that I endorse anything. There’s no way that anybody would’ve dropped me from a record deal over my saying that like, you know, I love the Westboro Baptist Church. It’s kinda like, the degree that I could basically say whatever I wanted to say, it was a sort of me taking the temperature on the health of the nation. Because if I could basically have a career, and say what I wanna say, and not have to worry about it resulting in any kind of mob takedown, because nobody was listening to what I said anyway for the most part until I said that I was pro-Trump…
BM: Well you’re speaking to the truth there. That’s usually a good barometer with which to gauge things socially, you know?
AP: That’s also why I was so brazenly pro-Trump, with all of the social justice stuff happening in 2015. I see that these are pretty much illegal things to do. These are illegal actions to have people basically kicked out of their jobs because somebody at their job said something that they did without any kind of real due process or delving into the truth of the matter. Again it’s just all these words that sort of are charged by people’s emotions and how that’s sort of what’s running the show and it’s a matter of you can’t say that. Like, you couldn’t fire somebody just cause somebody, one of your coworkers, said that you raped them. Okay? Right. You wouldn’t do that anyway.
BM: That’s the social conditioning though. It’s gotten so far, to the point where certain words are designated triggers, whether it’s rational or not.
AP: Well, the point is too that in the past you couldn’t just blast people with unsubstantiated charges. The responsibility was on the person that was making the claim about whoever, whatever, to verify and prove their claim. Now you have to go through a court of law to do that and nobody wants to do that. It’s like, that’s a crap shoot. It’s very hard to do because it’s very much, at that point, you’re not a victim so much as you’re seen as trying to like re-aggravate somebody else. You wanna attack somebody else and basically get revenge or something like that. But that’s a misuse of the justice system. That’s not what it’s for. It’s a very imperfect system that’s got so many little loopholes, to the point that you can barely do anything. But it’s as close as we have to justice. I mean, there’s certain things that are more or less sacred in that realm. So there is some sort of justice system and this social justice business is obviously a way to circumvent all of that. And in the process, I mean just on the face of that, that’s always gonna be an illegal action. That’s gonna be social pressures and coercions that are, once you get into it… I mean, do people really believe that I’m a racist? Do people really believe that Trump is a Nazi? Yes, they do! And why do they? Because it’s been advantageous for them and they’ve gotten every reward from doing it.
BM: It’s incentivized. It’s like a social credit.
AP: This is a brainwash. There’s no putting the genie back in the bottle. If you were to corner somebody and actually ask them if they thought that you were these things, they’d probably weasel their way out of it. “No, of course not, man, I’m sorry.” And then they’d go right back to doing it the next second. But they went back into their group chat or whatever, or to meet with their friends, whatever is convenient. It’s a moral decrepitude that has been perpetrated from the top down. So I don’t blame them for their stances and they certainly don’t have to agree with me on anything. But I think that the fact that some people came out of the woodwork and they told me, “Well, I just wanna say, man, I disagree with what they did to you and John, blah, blah, blah. You know, like, this really sucks.” And I’m like, well, dude, it doesn’t matter. (laughs) Doesn’t matter if you think that. Your support doesn’t do shit for me. It doesn’t do anything. It doesn’t. Why do you tell me that? Like, you’ll still go to that festival. You’ll still go to the places where you see people doing that stuff. That means that you tacitly support them. So you disagree with that decision? You just saying that is laughable. It’s like spitting in my face. And it’s hard to explain this to people without actually getting riled up and kind of giving them what they want.
BM: It’s hard not to take the bait sometimes. I know. But you’re entitled to. I feel you should be vindicated, and I know you believe that there’s no resolve, really, but I just wanted to be able to give you an opportunity to speak your piece. You know?
AP: I mean, prove me wrong! Right?
BM: That’s what I’m saying. Lay it all out there.
AP: I’m more than happy to be the wacky crazy person here. Okay? I’m more than happy to just be a kook that’s basically talking outta his ass. That’s what I always assumed I was. That’s always what you could have taken me for back in the day. But that’s because nobody has any real intelligence anymore. And apparently even the people that I looked up to and thought so well of were not able to parse bullshit from bullshit. And that’s what it comes down to. I mean, I thought more people could, and I guess that’s me looking at life through my rose-tinted glasses. I do blame myself somewhat for that because I’ve been very lucky, and I feel like my skill set and my instincts have always sort of served me in a good way. And I think I’ve probably projected that a little bit onto the world in a way that I probably should know better than to. But that’s not my problem. It’s not your problem. Well, it is my problem, but I’m not gonna beat myself up over it. I always, you know, honestly pulled out for some hope. I speak like I’m extremely black-pilled and all that stuff, but I just like to make people uncomfortable a little bit. I like to make them think it’s not okay. After they’re like, “Yeah, we agree.” It’s like, no, it’s not okay. It’s not okay for you to agree with me. It’s just not. We’re in a whole different realm. And the fact that you think that it’s a matter of agreeing with me or not is beyond the pale; it has nothing to do with agreeing with me or not. We’ve overturned the Constitution. Yes, we did. We did that. It’s gone. It’s lawless. It’s not a country anymore. We, this generation did that. There’s no kind of “only Jesus can be this merciful.” You know what I’m saying? And that’s essentially the shame. That’s the shame is that it’ll never even hit them – what they’ve done.
BM: I would like to know – we kinda touched on it – what you make of the idea of community and people’s misconception of it. Or at least the way the concept has been abused in which people are rewarded for hurting others.
AP: Yeah, uh, community is a weird way of putting it. It’s not a community. It’s another demographic.
BM: I was speaking abstractly – it’s kinda nebulous, I know.
AP: Well, what it is, is it’s one side who believes in that stuff and another side that doesn’t. It’s not even that they do or don’t believe. It’s the few people who are at the top… It’s all conspiratorial, unfortunately.
BM: Yeah. It is, though.
AP: And it sucks because it really kinda leaves us with “well what do you do?” I get it. I know, it’s a fucked up situation. I don’t know what we can do but we cannot misdiagnose the issue. The issue is not a people thing; it’s not like we can make a broad coalition and fight back as a community. We’ve been completely stripped of our power, as a voice. So that’s been conquered. We have no voice; we have no power whatsoever. We have no choice in our fate.
BM: Well, do you believe that it’s reached the point of… because you say it’s not a people issue… I guess what I’m trying to touch on more of is the metaphysical with you.
BM: And I’m wondering: do you believe it’s a spiritual matter, what’s happening right now?
AP: I do believe it’s a spiritual matter and it’s a spiritual matter because up until this point, throughout history, there has been… empires have come and gone, civilizations have toppled, that kind of thing. All that stuff was a preamble to this moment… because the powers that be could not stop the French Revolution from happening. They couldn’t stop the masses, the will of the people. They believe they have that taken care of already. We solved that part, that issue. The issue of the people, you know they had their revolution, storming the capital, the Bastille, whatever you wanna call it. That’s been more or less, with some exceptions, especially in this country we’ve pretty much been able to get a hold on that thing. If there’s any kind of real, successful storming and rioting toward a specific aim, it’s all completely artificial.
BM: Okay, so that’s what I was getting at–
AP: To say we have some sort of freedom that North Korea doesn’t have, that’s bullshit. We are…profoundly and completely… For the first time, we have zero say and we will never get it back. We will never have another election. There will never be one. You could say we never had one in the first place.
BM: It’s theater.
AP: That’s true to a certain degree, but not entirely true. What I believe is the key difference is that the powers that be were arrogant enough to allow the elections to actually be up for question to a certain point. The powers that be are responsible for narrowing it down, for the candidates that are head-to-head in the election, and basically corralling everyone into voting. They can basically engineer the way that people think and essentially convince people to go one way or another. They can affect people’s free will in that regard. But they leave it open so that there’s still a chance. They have such power, such arrogance, and powers of persuasion at their disposal that they basically have never outright fabricated an actual election.
BM: Like you say, our freedom, our voice has been completely snuffed, and what nascent recall there is of it is so benign, the scarcity of our choice, it’s relegated to “So are you going to buy I Can’t Believe It’s Not Butter? Or Land O’ Lakes?”
AP: But even then, we don’t even have power because they’re –
BM: They’re owned by the same conglomerate.
AP: They’re in the process of lifting all that up, rolling up the carpet – that’s over. I mean I can’t underscore enough how end of the world it really is. Because I’m telling you, there was no announcement made, per se, no big fanfare, or any kind of statement made by any public official to announce it but the country is over. And they just need to keep us from completely losing our shit. They wanna buy up all the stuff first. They wanna buy up all the mom-and-pop stuff but it has to still sort of look at least like everything is normal, you know?
BM: Yeah, outwardly.
AP: For all intents and purposes, there’s no rule of law anymore. It’s completely gone, there’s no pretense to it anymore. It’s gone. So, nobody has any rights anymore. Nobody’s got any rights, there’s no right to privacy. You call the police, it doesn’t matter, it’s not gonna happen. It’s global police. They’re not allowed to use their judgment. They get penalized. It’s done! It’s over. You don’t know how over it is. Now everybody’s just going on like its business as usual but that’s because they’re in complete and utter denial about the reality of the situation. The reality of the situation is that there was a coup, I mean it could have been a coup from people that were in power prior to Donald Trump. But it is a coup, nonetheless. It’s a blatant con. It’s just not called that. It’s not an insurrection but they took it away during the last year of Trump’s presidency behind closed doors. There was a negotiation that was made, a broad understanding and agreement, between certain parties that said, “This is what’s gonna go down.”
BM: Speaking to what you were just talking about, that most people are aware but most don’t give a shit: what if there is a contingency of people who are aware but are unsure how to go about any meaningful healing or repurposing? Well, let me ask you this frankly –
BM: So for how what most people consider the natural order of things – for civilization to flourish, to return to a certain form, do you think there will need to be casualties to return to the natural order of things? You know, the Sam Hyde thing. “These people have names and addresses.” (laughs)
AP: The only way this is going to be salvageable, and I don’t really think things are, but here’s what we’re looking at: casualties if we don’t do anything. Casualties if we do.
BM: Okay, I see you, yeah.
AP: Which casualties are better? Which ones are we talking about? I mean the problem is –
BM: Inaction? That we allowed things to happen?
AP: That we allowed things to happen – that makes sense. I think what ultimately needs to happen to allow for, “to make America great again,” is that there needs to be one of those guys that the left still respects, like a Bill Maher or someone that other Democrats listen to, and there needs to be a healing ritual. And I mean this literally. A public healing ritual that is conducted over the whole country. With everybody tuning in. And everybody apologizing.
BM: The ones who need to, right?
AP: Right. And it won’t be overnight but there has to be a gesture from somebody on the left that understands that they’ve gone too far. And can say “stop it.” Because we’ve been fooling ourselves for long enough now. We fucked up. And the problem isn’t Nazis on the right. Or fascists, or any of that stuff. It’s the media… what the media unleashed, and they allowed us to believe that we’re at war with other people in this country and that’s not true. It was just other people in power that were covering their own asses.
AP: Because they were caught red-handed trying to topple the world in order to get away with their petty crime. That’s all it is. People in power, unchecked power, and they basically flinched in plain sight and people saw that.
BM: Right. You weren’t supposed to see that.
AP: Whoever did was persecuted. They’ll throw the whole world overboard. They introduced a fucking pandemic – I don’t even know if it was a pandemic. It was a promotional stunt they pulled. All for a vaccine that has been in the making for 17 years and a virus that they didn’t even know existed.
BM: Yeah. That was insane.
AP: We have every reason to believe that Donald Trump may have been in on this whole thing, right?
BM: Well that’s valid. Operation warp speed.
AP: But he’s not. That’s my hunch.
BM: Mine as well.
AP: If he’s in on it, that’s quite a play. I would have to give them props for coming up with that one. It seems wholly unlikely and beyond their capabilities. And they’re resilient in that they don’t have to win everything right away.
BM: You can tell they’re not that worried.
AP: They can make the judgment and use it to their advantage. I think what I really appreciate with Donald Trump is that the guy isn’t as evil as they say. He’s not as immoral as them and that’s good for them because they can do their thing and not worry what is going to happen to them, but it is a kind of thing where he’s their Achilles heel.
AP: They show themselves for who they are every single time. You know how, there’s a kind of situation where, say: you have a girlfriend or a friend who’s a girl and she’s just out of a relationship and she tells you some sort of shit about her ex being abusive and it kinda makes you want to punch the guy. Okay? And time passes and she keeps talking about how terrible this guy is, and at this point you can’t *really* believe anything she says anymore because you know better. I mean, it is possible that this guy is terrible. When they first broke up, you were willing to believe it, but after the zillionth time, where like they haven’t even had contact – you know it’s not his problem. Whatever is going on with her, that was 5 years ago.
BM: Yeah, that tracks.
AP: And she’s still talking shit about him and you’re starting to believe this guy was with a crazy person for 5 years and that crazy person was my friend!
BM: Yeah, for sure.
AP: That’s what it is now. That’s what it feels like to me. It’s funny because it’s people like pretending – they’re really, basically, coming to the defense of their friend: the Democratic party. They don’t see that their friend is not really their friend. I mean their friend is in actuality just about the most evil fuckin’ person to have ever existed.
BM: I agree with that sentiment.
AP: And they’re (Republicans) really just here to make Democrats look good in the election.
BM: It’s like professional wrestling. Heels and babyfaces. Kayfabe.
AP: You have one side that’s basically all-powerful, mega government at your expense, and then we have the other side which is supposed to, if nothing else, keep that side in check. If that were the Republicans’ *only* job, which I think it’s certainly one of them, but if it’s their only job then they’re completely incapable of it. They’re basically the same thing.
BM: They’re bedfellows.
AP: …the power of the media, and the military, and the state, those things used to be separate. I think that the military and the government were more linked, but in terms of the media it’s more like a mafia. And when I say the mafia, I mean many competing mafias, and when you have all the characters of the mafia, all these nefarious interests working aside and along with and adjacent to “American interests,” and the media, for all its insidiousness is really an agent of the deep state. It’s an expression of the deep state for whatever kind of politics are happening in D.C. If the media doesn’t like the performance, they can just take out anybody. And they basically manipulate movies in every which way and then the people get their walking orders. It’s like Dungeons and Dragons…like a role-playing game. I really believe people in Washington get their orders from the media, that they look at the media to know if their performance is doing well. They’ll have their moment in the sun and say something in front of everybody, and I don’t know if they know if they’re headed to the trash bin or not, and then they’ll have you syndicated like AOC, someone who basically all the sudden rises to the occasion.
AP: And gets a very good role for next season.
AP: When the dungeon master decides you’re out, all they need to do is embroil you in some made-up scandal and the rest is done. But Donald Trump is the exception to this. He’s basically Magneto, and that stuff just makes him more powerful. (laughs)
BM: (laughs) Yeah.
AP: It’s really great because the good guys really… we deserve Donald Trump. And make no mistake, the Democrats of the United States deserve Donald Trump. They need a dad. Personally, I say he’s too good for them. They don’t deserve him. They deserve to think what they want and fail. The reality is that they deserve to fail with him in their lives, staring down at them from Wheaties boxes and everything else for the rest of their lives. He’s the super ego that they never cultivated.
BM: That’s beautiful. And befitting.
AP: But I don’t think it will, I mean, that’s my fantasy. I think that in reality this is a satanic force. I think it’s bigger than Donald Trump. He’s one mere man and this other force, it’s…
BM: You said it: it’s satanic.
AP: And that’s not a euphemism. It’s beyond demonic. I think that hell wouldn’t even let these people in. And for some reason I have this big role in it… I mean, I was supposed to die with like a little cult following, practically unknown. I would have been happy dying if like up to a couple thousand people thought that I was something. That was my fate, that’s what I was resigned to, and I would have been totally happy with that. The fact is that I couldn’t even do that because I was a sacrificial lamb served up to Moloch.
BM: Yeah, but you know what, man? God had other plans. That’s something to take solace in. It’s biblical.
AP: It is biblical. But bringing it back down, I don’t think these guys are gonna get what they want. I think they’re gonna die before that happens. Their ambitions are not easily wielded…they’re going to die and not live out their dreams of immortality now.
BM: I’m curious: have you seen this viral video of a woman they’re calling a crazy Karen? The woman on the plane –
AP: Yeah, I did see that.
BM: She claimed one of the people on the plane wasn’t a real person.
BM: What do you make of that kind of stuff?
BM: I’m sure you’re familiar with Billy Corgan and Alex Jones talking about this (shape-shifting)…
AP: I think there’s Area 51 and aliens… they say that there are these multidimensional beings from all over the universe and that this is a prison planet. (laughs)
BM: (laughs) Yeah, they do say that. Kind of a gnostic bent.
AP: But no, this is a prison planet where they can imprison souls. What kind of souls? Dissenting souls, basically artists, and people who break the rules and it’s some weird thing in their destinies that basically over-imbues these souls with a sense of individuality or free will or whatever, and they get banished from their unique constellation or planet and they get sent to the United States. Planet Earth, which is a prison planet. And they’re implanting their souls in people’s bodies. It’s like scientology–
BM: Yeah, yeah, it’s like idea of thetans, and vessels…
AP: Thetans – they have like, all these different names for it but it’s all pretty much the same idea…and when people say “Why are they visiting us now? Why all the sudden?”
BM: It makes you wonder.
AP: Well, they say they basically have a script that they’re trying to play out with humanity and they just intervene every now and then so we don’t fuck everything up.
BM: Are you familiar with Kyle Odom?
AP: Sounds familiar.
BM: So he was an American, they describe him as an attempted murderer and conspiracy theorist. He had a military background, wrote a manifesto at great length and claimed to be privy to some of these backwards goings-on. And he was being harassed, supposedly. And this person harassing him he believed was a reptilian, who was manipulating him by causing synchronicities in his life events, implanting thoughts not his own, trying to fashion him into the next school shooter, and of course he was called crazy. So he ends up approaching this person (or reptilian, depending what you believe), who is an established pastor at this time – and he approached him in a parking lot and shot him 6 times with a .45 caliber pistol, in the torso and head – and he survived. And the guy who he shot 6 times recovered fully and is now an Ohio House of Representatives member. It’s kind of odd…
AP: Wow. That is something interesting. I never considered myself conspiratorial prior to this happening. In fact, I was the least conspiratorial person. And I actually always took the reptilian talk as racist. Like, what if there was a reptilian in the room? (laughs) My point is that it’s plenty bad enough as it is – we don’t need to supplement with otherworldly beings – they’re all right here. We’re plenty capable as it is.
BM: I’m inclined to agree with you. It sure seems like it’s mounting. It’s scary.
AP: The question is, will people really buy it? I was watching a TED talk with a CIA person. And they said they can tell us what some of their tactics were. And one of the more above-ground facts in their tool kit were masks. They were so uncanny…and that’s usually all it takes to completely fuckin’ throw people off…I wonder…part of me is: is the point of all this to get us hot and bothered so we do something? I think Alex Jones had the right idea when he was on Joe Rogan many moons back – his whole theory about basically history being on this continuum and human consciousness only existing on this plane and there are energies below it that are always there, but they basically fuel darker passions I suppose and gradually, over time, have gained the upper hand on the conscious plane. Writing…math…all these sorts of things that have kind of stuck it out, they are dying out, our singular narrative forward is computing now. All these technologies that give people a crazy leg up, we can’t really undo. It’s like a rock, a boulder, rolling, becoming this real thing, and it’s tied in with elites, and their dream of immortality, and power, I think it’s something to do with pedophilia, also the subjection of humans to torture…
BM: Ritualistic humiliation.
AP: Yeah. I’ll never get over the fact that it’s all spelled out, what’s going on, in plain English. You can’t put that genie back in the bottle. It’s like, you know, every serial killer has heard of at one time or another Marquis de Sade and 120 Days of Sodom, who committed one type of thought crime or another, but I think that we haven’t integrated certain aspects of ourselves and so we still have a tendency as being alien to us and it makes it very easy to not reflect on what role we have – letting ourselves off the hook. We’re all guilty, as sentient beings, of things. We’re all guilty – we shouldn’t judge others as harshly as we do. It’s not for us to judge; we should be compassionate. That’s personally my thing.
BM: Yeah. I still firmly believe in mercy and compassion.
AP: I think that Christianity is love, and that’s what’s gonna last us and get us from here to there. I say that to anyone who is pessimistic, that there is a light. And so long as they haven’t snuffed all of us out and people are willing to hear you then we still have a chance. Don’t give up hope, man, and I say that as someone who is extremely pessimistic about where things are going myself. There is a light. And if people are still willing to listen, then that’s what counts.
BM: I reckon it’s something like Leonard Cohen was musing about, that the cracks in things are what lets the light in. I feel that God had other plans for you and that you’re a source of that light now.